Let's let history be instructive, rather than a shackle. It is also the elites who run this country dividing Americans any way they can, so the policies of the elites don't get discussed. Once that is resolved, there should be less controversy. Lee never committed treason..If you know anything about the mindsets of citizens prior to the Civil War you'll know that when one thought of their country they thought of their state..Their state was their country..You can't judge a past civilization on modern standards..People are a product of the generation in which they lived..Lee looked upon Virginia as his country and when Virginia called upon him for their defense he answered the call..As he stated..I can not draw my sword against my country..my family..When Lee was offered command of the entire Federal Army by Blair at Lincoln's bequest he said he'd think about it..It was the most grueling decision he ever made as he paced the floor that night at Arlington..And he came to the conclusion that he couldn't take up arms against Virginia which was his country so he tendered his resignation from the Federal Army..Prior to the war the United States when referred to in any conversation was said as the United States are..After the war it is now stated that the United States is..As Shelby Foote stated and I believe he explained it in fairly simple terms..The war made us an "is"……. It is the same myth the national park service (run by the federal government) uses and amped up during the Obama administration. my mother, i.e., my state.” State loyalty was much, You go to college for 4 years on the Army's dime, while getting the best training and education. Others may wish to know the motivation for the treason. Put the statues and portraits in places of introspection not elevation. West Point Academy offers many ways to help prepare physically for Cadet Basic Training. he gives about holding slaves. Fact #1: West Point is the oldest continuously operated Army post in the United States. (but it does not exempt them from inspection either). Meanwhile, as the United Daughters of the Confederacy slipped Lee back into the academy’s memory and the white officer corps reconciled old differences, African-American cadets were subjugated to harsh and unfair treatment by academy officials and fellow white cadets. Poe’s tenure at West Point from July 1830 to February 1831 was “short, yet tumultuous,” according to, “Edgar Allan Poe: The Army Years,” a publication from West Point’s library. This willful ignorance of the black experience in American history—including in American military history—was critical to the lionization of Confederate heroes and reconciliation with white southern officers. Please stop distracting from those who wish to further the conversation with your already-established personal opinion. Actually, Lee applied for reinstatement but died before it was processed. Why not? Cullum Hall, where Lee’s name first started to appear after the Civil War, was completed to serve as a memorial hall for West Point graduates who distinguished themselves in the military profession. However, if I claimed I was part of a fake nation when I chose to commit treason that wouldn't likely fly very far. and David Donald, The Civil War and Reconstruction, Second Edition, D.C. Heath and Company, 1966, pgs. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. The story of the Goat demonstrates that you don’t have to be an academic superstar in order to be successful or to make a … A rebellion, I might add, in which an Army was levied against the United States (no exceptions for who started it). The indictment was presented in this video (https://www.c-span.org/video/?446960-2/robert-e-lees-treason-war-crimes-indictment) by the author, John Reeves, in The Lost Indictment of Robert E. Lee. He took an oath to uphold and protect the Constitution of the United States, the only country of which he was a citizen or subject. If the "most honorable thing" he could consider is that a racist slavery policy should be defended with the lives of thousands then we are under no obligation to venerate him in any way. Why would they need a pardon from it if they were never treasonous? However, there is a not-insignificant group of people that cannot bring themselves to say that. Lee and his beloved Virginia never engaged federal troops until the federal troops were in Virginia. I had to walk through the halls while I was a cadet and be tormented with the idea that he was a great leader. Gabe and Jimmy brilliantly illustrate and annotate in historical context the “obscuring power of the tradition and folklore” we’re trying to make sense of in light of the our nations sin of slavery and inhumane discrimination. Reveal it through logical argument and presentation of facts. Take the statues down. Lee was the greatest Napolionic military leader in history. C9ngress passed.an act restoring his citizenship. 39 episodes. Convicted, charged or not. In any case, I have argued in the chain above that the fact Lee and his fellows fought against the USA is a weak argument. Mr. Kostyal, one implication of your statement is that slaveowners, not slaves, were somehow victims when they were "subjugated" into not enslaving black people and no longer violating black people's God-given inalienable rights. If it is about slavery- and what isn't?- how do the authors deal with the issue of commanders of slave-state outfits that remained in the Union (Maryland, Missouri, Delaware, and Kentucky)? My family was enslaved at Monticello. Taking Alexander’s stirring words to heart, the Corps of Cadets began to forgive Confederate graduates for seceding and glorified their military accomplishments. We study Genghis Khan, but do not build statues to him. I'd prefer to have the something similar happen with the monuments to the Confederacy at West Point and elsewhere. Did he Trigger a Snowflake? Maybe if you study the war for a few more years you will run across the southern states declarations of succession. It is true that Washington and Jefferson also had slaves. Let’s not forget the 50,000 Confederate soldiers to include 600 officers who died under his command. No West Point graduate reading this is surprised to read that. You may have to explain the significance of the Lee grandchildren. In the end both sides got some things right (ending slavery being by far the most crucial obviously), and both sides did a lot wrong that resulted in over 800,000 lives lost. I think yes, you think no. Obviously, you are not a minority of African descent or you would feel differently. We take our orders from the civilian decision makers. It’s too easy to call people names, especially when they have no other purpose than to destroy or to go along with the crowd. Or are those all commie/socialist terms to you. But for the past few years I have read through the Bible each year. In the same vein, Lee’s portrait in the mess hall showing him in his blue US Army dress uniform as superintendent should remain as a matter of historical record. Next go read the definition for treason, you will see that it is defined as attempting to overthrow the government, which the CSA was clearly doing to the USA. What about statues and pictures of Native Americans like Tecumseh or Osceola? I expect that when the decision to remove the monuments comes, we do not hear a peep from those that say we shouldn’t second guess decisions of leadership. It is sad that you would be given a commission and benefit from our great nation. In 1863 Lee did just that. Likewise, placing statues in museums, where context can be added. al. We make that decision today, not in the past, and we get to take into account our present understanding of race and slavery. No matter what is done with him He is still to this damn day the only person to graduate Westpoint without a single Demerit. Your definition of a traitor is inaccurate at the least. Further I have zero respect for signatories of that indefensible letter that was nothing more than liberal propaganda. Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas. Lee was a man of his time and did great things and lived honorably while simultaneously stained by essentially defending slavery. Robert E. Lee was in a no-win situation in 1860; he made the wrong choice, but he probably knew that. I would argue that even by the standards of their own time, the Confederates were monsters and bullies. Whatever you've done to try to bring honor to your name is irrelevant, and does not change the horrific stain of the past. to believe their intention was anything but hate based in this article is horrible naivety. Through all his many trials, he remained selfless almost to a fault and unfailing in his faith in God. His interest was not in support of the former slaves. The portrait’s unveiling was the occasion when Gen. Maxwell Taylor claimed that “few fair-minded men can feel today that the issues which divided the North and South in 1861 have any real meaning to our present generation.” He spoke these words only a month after the Army decided to pursue full desegregation and three years before both Emmett Till’s murder and Rosa Parks’s arrest. In 1802 maakte president Thomas Jefferson er een militaire academie van, met de bedoeling dat de mensen die aan de academie zouden studeren vertegenwoordigers van een echte democratie zouden zijn. Lee's own writings made it very clear that he and the Confederacy were fighting for slavery. The Civil War began when Confederate General P.G.T. Instead we go with the guy who wanted to enforce slavery, killed Americans, tore families apart, and who lost the war? We can argue that Lee defied all three pillars. These men were protecting their homeland. According to the Nation Archives Lee was never formally restored to full citizenship. GEN Lee was put in a position to pit loyalty to his home and family against loyalty to his country. The following year, the United Daughters of the Confederacy made another offer to West Point, this time to sponsor a mathematics award dedicated to Lee, who was known for his mathematical acumen as a cadet. I'm curious in what way you feel the leaders of the Confederacy did not " levy War against [the United States], or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort"? Not sure I understand how either of us being a part of that letter somehow makes a difference to what we have written here when it comes to transparency? Lee’s Confederate portrait and any others like it should be removed and placed in the West Point museum or visitors center with appropriate historical context and background. As did my parents. This is the other have of being a-political. He freed them during the war. Any serious historians care to comment? History should remain untouched at USMA They were enemies of the state, yet we venerate them for their skill as warriors. Lee himself asked for a pardon for his role in the rebellion. Sincerely, • While personally against Slavery & Secession told Myself and many minority classmates (including women) said on a continuous basis, “Why are we propping up this guy when, if he won, we would not be here?” In fact, we would still be picking cotton or the like! You can see the indictment here: https://www.scribd.com/document/408207370/The-Lost-Indictment-of-Robert-E-Lee, I wrote a book about the subject titled, "The Lost Indictment of Robert E. That is the cognitive dissonance I spoke of earlier. The school has a responsibility to its cadets, and we hope West Point will do what it expects of its graduates—lead. Barracks are only to be named after USARMY Theater Level Commanders. The fact his grandchildren were there doesn’t change what we wrote, and if anything I believe it makes it an even stronger point. All former slave owners and traitors fighting against the United States at any time in history do not deserve the honor of recognition at any and all United States Military institutions and all public areas . To be viewed objectively and clearly. Sure, it's worth going back to see how his actions were understood and perceived in the past. If not, your hypocrisy will be resounding. On the other hand US Grant was a slave owner when he was living and working in Missouri. Sign up for our free Newsletters:   The south tried to leave the union Robert e. Lee was a southerner just like the rest.theyystayed with their states and families to the end until the government completed the subjugation of the south. Eisenhower's thoughts mirror those of many other military leaders of the time who had been steeped in the Lost Cause narrative. If I have a bias for people that make objectively moral stances on issues, I’ll take that criticism fully and completely. Was it even worth mentioning that the seeds for the Civil War were sown decades prior to the actual conflict, even in the Constitution itself? That people with extreme views could get voted into Congress is not just an occurrence in the modern era. With flaws of a nature any of us could develop, should the whim of circumstance offer such a conflict of loyalty – errors to which we are less prone, if only because we don’t limit our heroes to those beyond human failing. Anyone invoking how Lincoln would have thought/acted also has no basis in argument or fact. Where are his statute, painting in his Continental Army uniform. To call either a racist is not accurate. Celebrate that West Point can train such brilliant tacticians, yes. Probably, something that the venerated Lee would have sanctioned. And history tells, that Lee and Hitler would have more of an alliance than Lee and Dr. Martin Luther King. The Constitution clearly states that the country to which Lee was swearing allegiance was the United States, NOT Virginia. What a throw back to antebellum mind sets. Given the record of West Point in dealing with things, cadets will have to take our their markers and strike-out every instance where Lee’s name appears – or make that, edit their computer documents and do the same. There were pluses and minuses for this course of action. Lee's personal involvement with many of his students reflected his desire to create a new generation of Americans. Please re-read what I, and the commenter I responded to, wrote. The rebelling colonists did not pretend that their "secession" was legal under British law, and their leadership fully expected that if they lost, far from having statues erected in their honor, they would be tried for treason, would likely be found guilty, and would be executed. On that front, West Point continues to lead, and I remain deeply proud of our alma mater. Cnq86 your irrelevant question reveals your prejudices. Times have changed and we have to recognize the change by fully confronting the good, bad, and ugly facts about all of our nation's military leaders and their mistakes. Splitting the criticism avoids, or at least sidesteps, that judgement. If not for Saratoga, we would probably still be British subjects. The first circulating coin in history to bear the "W" mint mark of the West Point Mint was announced this week. I don't think we should be naming things after the post-1861 Robert E. Lee, but let's be careful about tearing his name off everything just because. His voice acting would elevate your gaming experience and make playing them so much better. Mr. Sandiford, could you please quote the passages that are emotion-fueled rushes? By all means, look for the evidence of bias. Truth is easily sustained. The Confederacy levied war against the US Government, so the Confederacy committed treason. If a murderer is pardoned for a crime, you can be sure that I will be calling them a murderer when it is appropriate. What changes that Lee made to the USMA are being erased (that haven't already been superseded)? Arnold was a Revolutionary War hero. Respectfully, Comment Policy | We are under no obligation to validate Lee’s sense of honor. The content of this video leaves something to think about pertaining to statues. We may disagree with his sense of honor, blessed as we are with post-modern theories and 160 years of hindsight, but he was an honorable man who clearly held values like loyalty in high regard. ), No context is given or allowed to Americans who lived in a different time, place, country and world. West Point produced 445 Civil War Generals, 294 fought for the Union and 151 for the Confederacy. The reason is that none of the southerners (Jefferson Davis, Alexander Stephens, Judah Benjamin, and also Robert E. Lee) were not guilty of treason, and no jury would or could have convicted them. People should know that if they end up on the wrong side of a moral argument, they will not (or at least should not) be someone that future generations will consider a hero. The festivities included a speech by Brig. If you don't think your actions are subject to interpretation and judgement by people in the future, I'm sorry to inform you, that is not the case. I can see why politicians want to avoid discussion and support COVERING UP even more questionable decision making, Keep in mind the Andrew Carnegie's and Vanderbilt's of the world did see African Americans as "cheap labor" who didn't require bathroom breaks. Define treason. But even if one conceded Lee’s military prowess, he would still be responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans in defense of the South’s authority to own millions of human beings as property because they are black. The victorious North had the means, wherewithal and emotional justification to prosecute any Southerner it wanted, but chose not to. Robert E. Lee may have been a fine military tactician and leader, but he was certainly the enemy of the United States, the Union, America for at least 4 years. I doubt most of you grads even know who he is. This leaves aside, however, the question of the right or wrongness of the cause for which the rebellion occurred. No one is erasing history (if anything, we're only finally starting to recognize that the history actually includes far more than just the overly reverential, revisionist view of those past traitors). We don’t study them for their politics. Just not in his lifetime. I thought this was one of the better articles and made several good points. In the Army, and even more so at West Point, the cadet or graduate was isolated from the rest of the world, and his friends and acquaintances were men who had shared the same experiences. Slaveholding states. I thought it was clear that when i said "you" above I was talking to a generic you that really is best represented as me talking to Lee. was certainly called into question. Would it change your mind if you knew that, for 80 years before the Confederacy. We're talking about West Point. Also, i appreciate the authors' "compelling" suggestion that we stop what they deem as someone else's revisionist history by allowing them to revise it instead. Dramatic series of actual people and events at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, New York. I'm afraid they are. These officers offered a thorough analysis of lost cause narratives and offered a suggestion on how to deal with the Lee issue. 560-561): In a final proclamation on December 25, 1868, Johnson declared "unconditionally, and without reservation, … a full pardon and amnesty for the offence of treason against the United States, or of adhering to their enemies during the late civil war, with restoration of all rights, privileges, and immunities under the Constitution and the laws …". In addition to his victory at Fort Ticonderoga, he was the reason the British were defeated at Saratoga and the invasion of upstate New York and New England was thwarted, and that victory was crucial in convincing France to join us as an ally. If taxes were the main problem why not say it up front? And Arnold did not violate his oath like Lee, he only returned to the country which was his prior to that war. To the credit of the Lincoln, Johnson, and Grant administration, prosecutions were declined. These decisions were made by those who came before us and are not up for your interpretation I'm afraid.